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Cheat Engine DMCA

Not really sure where to post this but Bethesda "and others." sent a DMCA to Cheat-Engine so they've taken down the Cheat-Engine forums tables section although if you register it can still be viewed but it's locked but it seems they're looking for alternatives so it might not be gone forever.



Something about how the utility allows for creating derived works on their copyrighted content or some such, which is odd for a local memory editor but yeah I guess it's difficult to argue with a big publisher or possibly group of publishers on this so I can understand why they locked down the forums a bit after this though the software itself and main website is still available as are most of the other forum sections. :)


  • What the actual f*ck? Creating a CT isn't creating a derivative work, it alters memory! Insane!

  • edited March 2017
    Yeah, hopefully this can be resolved in some manner but eh I wouldn't wanna be up against the legal department of a larger corporation either but it's unfortunate it came to this though for now at least everything is still available (Last I checked.) though a bit locked down.

    Cheat-Engine isn't even actively targeting online competitive play compared to some other sites out there or the from how things look the very lucrative payment driven trainer or online hack community so it's weird that the CE forums became a target although I guess there's various other factors too.
    Far as this site is concerned there were a number of games that had Cheat-Engine tables that allowed for camera control, FOV, various post-processing adjustments and such hosted on that forum too which might be a bit harder to access now.
    Or work for upcoming unreleased games, software itself is still available as is the Github source but there's no longer a easily available centralized community for the tables people created though some might end up on other communities or perhaps the CE forums will be able to recover and things can resume again, guess it's up to the author of the software and forum how he/she decides to proceed with all of this.

    Seen some more recent posts possibly indicating this could be a unfortunate results of crawling meaning some bot software finding references to Bethesda owned properties (A reference or whatever, name alone could suffice I guess.) or whoever else were involved with this notice and it was almost a automated response but I guess depending on where the servers are and where the person is located that might be enough to take legal action and take the site offline or as now parts of it. (Though it's just locked behind requiring a account for the moment and no further posts can be made currently.)

    I'm not the best when it comes to understanding the whole legal procedure behind these things either and it likely also varies heavily between say the EU and the US or just from one country to another, in any case more info on this will probably be available shortly perhaps clearing things up a bit. :)

    Entire thing seems stupid really but yeah wouldn't want to be in that situation myself so it's understandable that he or she would comply with any requests to avoid a more lengthy - or costly. - legal action if it could come to that.
    (Bethesda though, all their games have developer consoles allowing for pretty much the same in-memory functions that you'd get from using Cheat-Engine memory editing and with the exception of DOOM - developed by id Software, published via Bethesda/Zenimax - it's primarily single-player only on top of that.)
  • Hello, I wanted to express my concerns and my solidarity too in regards of this situation.
    I haven't been an observer of the CE universe for very long but am I the only one to be troubled by the facts we just learnt. I find the whole story rather awkward. I really wish the DMCA complain would be disclosed to the community, as they often contain no sensitive information but I guess that's a choice strictly belonging to site administrator.

    / “Bethesda and others” and it justifies the heart of the forum to be strictly taken down (large number of pages still being accessible through Google Cache and similar web tool), wouldn't it have been preferable to take down only games represented by the claimant. Isn't it nearly as easy as an SQL request to filter those, couldn't a single .sh script turns all existing hosted xml based CT download into plain text therefor avoiding many issues? Wouldn't it worth it to save the forum?

    / Like you, jonasbeckman, I am surprised to see Bethesda being the first name to appear in the message, while none-the-less they leave many doors open for players to control game's mechanics but they also provide many tools for modding, accompanying a clear and complete modding policy carried by a dedicated launcher for FO4/Skyrim tools! A single search on Steam's Workshop on any of those games would yield dozens of results of pure cheating/gameplay breaking Mods or assimilated material. [Even though it seems unlikely to me, I think of Quakes Champions which is in the work and will be heavily focused on competition and multiplayer - may be a clue]

    / Based on that ground could it be possible this notice would be the result of a zealous unguided legal contractor of Bethesda trying to justify their salary?

    / DMCA infringement and site owner seems to be in the Nederlands... as European I must say I am deeply shocked/offended by that (just like I was when I first saw “TPB AFK”)

    / DMCA is not a court ruling, still in this situation it looks like a final death sentence for a whole community while actions could still be taken to deal with the issue. Is that reasonable to "surrender" this fast to a situation that may have "diplomatic" solution?

    / Not to mention the link between Cheat Engine memory editing would be quite hard to establish as something infringing Intellectual Property or even games' own Terms of use, especially since, like mentioned, Cheat Engine is not at all centered on multiplayer games or organized fraud within the competitive sphere.

    I respect the will of the liable administrator to rather close forum than find himself caught in years of legal procedure and financial trouble but by originally creating that place of the web, doesn't he created for himself a responsibility to preserv and care for all those who, across the years, give their trust to that place and store their work over there? I mean, this is a 2-ways relationship, he must follow the law but at the same time he shouldn't he stand to protect and represent all its users. This being said let me repeat how I understand the decision and how uncomfortable this situation may be for him.
  • Wow, that was unexpected! Will be interesting how this pans out and what it will mean for this hobby of ours.
  • edited March 2017
    Hmm, my previous post was apparently flagged for 'approval'. Not sure why, perhaps the URL? Anyway, the forums have been relocated and the site is gone (it redirects to github). http://forum.cheatengine.org goes to the new forums. This also means that now indeed all tables are gone, except for the ones which have been re-uploaded to the new forums.
  • edited March 2017
    OtisInf said:

    Hmm, my previous post was apparently flagged for 'approval'. Not sure why, perhaps the URL? Anyway, the forums have been relocated and the site is gone (it redirects to github). http://forum.cheatengine.org goes to the new forums. This also means that now indeed all tables are gone, except for the ones which have been re-uploaded to the new forums.

    The old tables are not quite gone, people did manage to upload them to other sources. :)
    Here's one such bundle via a post from a Reddit topic. - https://github.com/Hexorg/CheatEngineTables/tree/master/tables

    EDIT: Swapped the above URL to a better link, more tables. :)
    From -> https://www.reddit.com/r/cheatengine/comments/5xbigm/has_the_officlal_site_been_taken_down/
    (5127 CE tables all in all.)
  • Nice! They're not all there tho (my AC unity/syndicate CTs aren't there) but it's likely a dump from archive.org or similar. Hopefully they'll get the CTs from the database of the forums so they can be preserved :)
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